Ancient Observatories
Some Ancient Alien theorists believe that the ancient temple (constructed 12,000 years ago) was built by space aliens because construction of Göbekli Tepe (in Turkey) is such that the manpower, engineering and project management should not have been possible twelve thousand years ago. The quality of art on the stone structures is also way ahead of its time.
Alien theorists say that Göbekli Tepe was built during, or before, the last ice age ended. How could hunter gatherers with food shortages at the time build Göbekli Tepe?
Monte Verde, in Chile, is even older at 16,500 BC, but it doesn’t boast the construction marvels that the ancient Turkish temple does.
Because I am an Ancient Alien skeptic, I think that people sell mankind short. When you look at a lot of ancient relics including water clocks and similar machines that were crafted “before there were clocks”, it’s not inconceivable that Göbekli Tepe, the pyramids at Giza, etc. were constructed without flying saucers being present.
The remarkably clear skies (particularly during the cold winter and long nights) in the Arizona Highlands harken back (for me) to a time when human beings looked up, a lot, and tried to make sense of what they saw. The sky (among other things) is a huge clock. And even though we have 500 television channels to browse, they derived wonder and awe from the sky. Often they built structures (such as Stonehenge or Chichen Itza) in an attempt to make sense of what they saw. Such a structural reference is evidenced at Göbekli Tepe.
FISA Abuse
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was ill conceived because it made the abuses perpetrated by the FBI that we have seen recently brought to light. The question of whether wicked foreigners are more dangerous to the republic than the FBI (and the ‘insurance policy’ they created against a duly elected president) is can be fairly asked. Now the FISA court itself, hoodwinked by the FBI, is pushing back. (more here)
“The frequency with which representations made by FBI personnel turned out to be unsupported or contradicted by information in their possession, and with which they withheld information detrimental to their case, calls into question whether information contained in other FBI applications is reliable,” wrote the FISA court.
With this sort of conduct being commonplace apparently, can the country trust anything that the FBI is doing to be free from corrupt influences generated by bias within the agency?
When the FISA courts were set up many years ago, many of us (including those of us in the prosecutorial end of the business – I worked for the Orange County CA District Attorney at the time) warned that the proper functioning of the system within its legal limits required the utmost honesty and ethical behavior of those involved in bringing matters before the courts, because the ability to supervise and insure the integrity of the system was impossible to monitor from the outside. Think about this; if Senator/SECSTATE Clinton had won the election, we never would have discovered the malfeasance and (basically dishonest) “missteps” involved in this particular case. Given the actions discovered in this matter, you have to wonder whether or not other investigations suffered from the same or worse “sloppiness”.
Gobekli Tepe's remarkable and points, perhaps, to an antedeluvian culture of some sophistication. And all at a time when we were supposed to be running around in skins while grubbing about for roots, berries and the odd bit of roadkill.
Ancient maps are interesting too. Created by aliens? No, they're not smart enough, just look at the mess they've made of the "coup."
The top three levels of management at the FBI ought to say goodbye.
Yep, a lot of people don't grasp "many hands make fast work". They also tend to think the ancients were dummies, and we're all geniuses. Pretty sure that general intelligence is much the same now as when we lived in caves, myself.
Nice to finally see some action on the Feebs and their fun & games.
-Kle.
Humans don't like unsolved mystery. Make up a solution and move on. Ancient aliens? Who is to prove you wrong? With the Earth's age estimated to be over 4.65 Billion years old, who can tell who/what/when events occurred. Best guesses, based on clues, are still guesses.
The vanity that we're so much smarter than people a few centuries ago is hard to take. Of course they studied the sky for patterns because getting those patterns right was a matter of life and death. Planting crops at the right time could mean survival or not. The only thing we have over the people from 3000 years ago is 3000 more years of knowledge being passed down.
The Antikythera mechanism is the most complex mechanical calculator known. It was created for that sort of astronomical prediction. My gut feeling is there might be a handful of people alive today who could figure out how to create one. The probably means there are 5 or 6 times the number alive now as when it was made.
That experience you talk about – seeing the night sky about as well as it can be seen in the 21st century – is something the vast majority of modern people can't identify with. Millions live their lives without ever seeing anything dimmer than the moon.
Petra is another great example…carved straight out of the rock and stunning. No way one could ignore the capability of the ancients.
The FISA Court hitting back offers serious credibility to the charge of nefarious activity on the part of certain gov't agencies…but the MSM ignored it, and continues to do so, preferring to yell louder for impeachment as that ship sinks.
I tend to agree with Giorgio Tsoukalous and the ancient alient theory crowd, and have been leaning towards their ideas since I read Erich von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" when I was in my early 20's.
Too many unexplained doo dads from way back to brush off as modern day arrogance. Puma Punku and those perfectly carbed "H" blocks need explanation (we can't even do that today), and all those structures that can only be made out from the sky (the Nazca lines), and of course the Piri Reis map, that defies arrogant shrugs off.
Too much unexplained stuff, LL. Way too much.
And I thought Erich von Daniken was dead. He's not and has a website where he still shows he's a true believer. I'm with everyone else here and believe the ancients were at least as smart as we are. Perhaps smarter. The less capable survive these days where back in BC they'd have been eaten. There's something to be said for natural selection.
FISA is and always has been a cluster… By classifying everything, nothing ever got oversight, so the Fibbies and others were free to do as they wished with compliant judges sitting on the court who answered to no one. Re the ancients, they were NOT dumb. They developed workarounds and had plenty of 'manpower' to get things done.
Mankind has been remarkably constant in terms of ingenuity and creativity. "BUT" the diggers and scratchers say, "look at Africa." Ok, well, not so much there. Most of the "evidence" of ancient culture there are monkeys who have some of the same traits as human beings. Make of that what you will.
Yes. There needs to be a purge. Decimation typically works, which is why it was used historically. See if the next go-round can be handled better. If not, they can join the ranks of the homeless.
The worm is turning for the FBI and at least part of the deep state. Another term of President Trump will help speed things along.
All guesswork. But human nature has remained constant, near as we can tell, by looking at places such as China, Egypt, etc.
seeing the night sky about as well as it can be seen in the 21st century – is something the vast majority of modern people can't identify with. Millions live their lives without ever seeing anything dimmer than the moon.
We have lost the wonder of it all.
Petra is magnificent, and there are how many wonders that no longer exist? People can do a great deal when they put their minds to it.
PS – It's racist if you don't hate President Trump. I just thought that I'd add that. It's not racist if you love Bernie, Biden and the Butt Guy.
Who can say? I'd be happy if they found something made out of a complicated alloy way down in one of those digs. But alas.
We have an advantage, as SiGraybeard suggests, because of accumulated knowledge, but not necessarily in base IQ. Maybe aliens boosted it (2001: A Space Odyssey) or maybe not.
FISA is a tool that the FBI will lose. Some permutation of that may survive, but it will be subject to oversight: That is my prediction.
I enjoy the Ancient Alien shows the same way many enjoy wrestling, 95% of it is BS but it's still a lot of fun. Aliens didn't build the pyramids and many other ancient wonders, humans did, because they are smart and work hard. However,as Fredd pointed out there are certain things which defy explanation.
DanH
I watch Ancient Aliens for the same reason. I don't DVR them but if they're on I often watch. Some things do defy explanation. The Nazca Lines that Fredd refers to could have been drawn if they artists had sent up a hot air balloon to give them perspective. I'm not saying that's how they were drawn, but it could have been done that way with technology available to them. They go up, the air cools, and they come down.
"People can do a great deal when they put their minds to it."
I just changed the fuel filter and re-primed the fuel system on the 2500 Cummins, does that count?
"It's racist if you don't hate President Trump."
Ok, I'm good with that…especially considering the reprehensible among us (as you alluded yesterday) have created a world where words have no real meaning. I'm now officially a misfit…ban me to the island.
I'm still fascinated by how the guy built Miami's Coral Castle, single handedly moving those huge blocks without heavy equipment, how the block "door" pivots with a fingertip. The knowledge is proven yet stumps the engineers
Then again, so does Kentucky's Pleasant Hills Shaker Village Meeting House 40' full span roof truss, which would not pass modern engineering but works perfectly – all by a self-taught 1800's engineer.
It seems that the smarter, more forward thinking of early man left Africa.
And there is good evidence that hard times and harsh conditions actually creates intelligence and the need to innovate.
Anyone can live in a lush jungle or lush land environment and be surrounded by food 24/7/365 and survive, even if barely. It takes a lot of brain power and innovation to survive sucky lands and sucky times, like, well, Europe or North Asia.
Africa? What's to worry about Africa? All you have to do if you're out of food is go attack your neighbor and whack and eat their food, or them, or both.
Pretty much the same in the Pacific islands. If you over-fish and over-farm the island, go next door and take theirs, and them, and soup's on!
Even the Americas were overly productive with easy labor in comparison to Europe and Northern Asia. Sure, some innovations in crops, some spectacular stone work in South America, but no ships, no sailing away from land, no wheels, no use of pulleys or screws, no advanced metallurgy.
In contrast, where life is hard, land is hardscrabble, innovation and the smarter thrive. All simple machines are created, which lead to complex machines, which leads to advanced metallurgy, advanced construction (not using just mass to create, but lack of mass (any dolt can pile rocks on top of each other, it takes a smart man to carve cathedrals.)
Decimation for the lowest rank.
Increase the % removed as you climb the ranks.
The top three tiers needs to be replaced 100%.
Anyone involved in collecting, collating, analyzing, touching, being near the investigation needs to be, at the least, eliminated. Anyone who did not acknowledge the illegality of the investigation needs to be, at least, fired.
Anyone who showed malice or active participation needs to be fired with cause, at least, with loss of pension. And then start criminal prosecution. Plea bargain with pensions held as the carrot and watch the lower scum throw the upper scum onto the burning pyre of justice.
On the other hand, just look at all the 16th or 17th century crafts that we can't readily duplicate even with good documentation.
Or crafts that disappeared in Europe after the Plague hit. It's one of the reasons behind the Italian, and then others, Renaissance. Needing to figure out how to do what the dead masters did, and how to do what they did with 1/10th the manpower. During a cooling climate trend.
We can't, to this day, replicate Roman Cement. We think we have some similar formulae, but our best still deteriorates and softens in comparison to good old Roman stuff.
Don't discount the craftiness and shear willpower of us humans.
And that is why Northern Europeans conquered the world, Beans. (as you point out)
I referred to decimation of the organization with the top three tiers summarily removed. But I like how you think.
Did you work on the truck out in the cold or inside a heated garage? Because I was just out working on the truck in 15 degrees primarily because I wasn't smart enough to pull it into the garage and plug in an electric bar heater.
_____
You can fight WSF for the bunk next to the stove in the FEMA re-education camp.
All true, which supports the general thesis that it was humans despite all of their flaws, which did the remarkable things that some attribute to space aliens.
Intelligence is only boosted in Humans when under stress. When humans are unstressed, due to availability of food and ease of living conditions, there's no reason for intelligence to appear.
In fact, in a lot of 'easy living cultures' smart children are eliminated, because they are dangerous. Dangerous to the status quo, dangerous to those in power, dangerous to the stupids all around him or her (intelligent women are especially a threat to a hand-to-mouth existence.)
It is the harder living conditions that forms intelligence.
Look at pre-pre-Egypt. When the Sahara was a vast fertile plain, all the smarts needed to live was the ones needed to avoid predators, and find food. Desertification starts, and pre-Egypt people start having to think for a living, starting to farm, to band together in fixed places and create buildings, weapons, defend themselves against, and attack other humans. By massive desertification of the Sahara, it's time for Egypt of the Pharaohs to appear, and farm and irrigate dry land. The farther one goes from just walking around and picking stuff up, the more intelligence is needed and wanted and valued.
You see the same everywhere. When life gets tough, the brains come out. Think of some of the great 'barbarian' tribes, like the Mongols, or the Norse, Danes and Swedes (well, before they islamified themselves, but that' recent history..) These cultures may not seem 'smart' but it takes a lot of brain power to survive in cold, windy, sparse terrain. And to create and innovate. 'Viking' metalwork, especially steel, was far in advance of the easier living found even in central Europe. Mongols developed a lot of small but smart technical skills to survive, and also developed a massive strategic and tactical intelligence. You look at a mongol, or a 'Viking' and each part of their gear is well constructed, well thought out. (In comparison, take your typical Pacific Islander or Central African of the same time period and… yeah… not so much.)
It's beginning to come out that all the advances of the Central and South American natives also came about due to stresses involving water management and climate change. That includes learning to handle stone in order to terrace mountainsides, like Manchu Pichu.
Ancient alien theorists would have ascribed the genius to interference from "beyond". It's a disservice to the people who did great things (often by trial and error). They all say that Leonardo DiVinci was an alien…
Of course, I have theorized that Hillary Clinton was an alien lizard with a human skin to make her seem less reptilian. But the skin didn't do the trick, did it?
Since I've been so verbose already in comments above, just want to add some additional stuff.
Why can't some people believe that mankind thought of really neat and innovative stuff, from the dawn of time up to today? That all these advances that make us who we are today can only come from non-humans of extraterrestrial origin?
I mean, gee guys, since I've been alive we've gone from tubes in computers and other electronics to printed circuits so small the power of a watch is more than all of NASA had during the space program (well, that is, if the watch is one of those phone watches that has all the doo-dads built in.)
I mean, I go to play on my dad's Shopsmith and stare in wonder at the whole complete workshop and wall of tools that it replaced, just for fuztzing around as an amateur, home woodworking shop like used to be found in just about every farm.
We've (us humans) have recently rediscovered that Stonehenge England was more technologically advanced than the semi-cavemen everyone used to think it was. Lots of advanced-for-the-time agriculture, wood, stone and metalworking at an equal to Egypt of the Pharaohs. Innovative techniques for moving huge arsed stones. Gold work and bronze work as fine as found in 'civilized' Egypt.
I tend to believe that, due to periodic die-offs, we have cyclically lost huge amounts of cultural knowledge. Things like plagues, volcanoes and other natural disasters could and did end cultures rather quickly (the Minoans are just one example. Pompei as a 'separate culture' is another.)
Is there a possibility of extra-terrestrial aide in human endeavor? Scientifically, the answer is 'maybe.' Why maybe? Because we haven't found 100% proof either way that ET did or did not help man. We have speculation and hypothesis (which is all too often held as 'proof') that ET helped. We can just as easily speculate (and say it's proof) that ET treated Earth as a hunting preserve and we're just smarter prey. How much actual proof? We have yet to find any proof (caveat: that we, the normal people, know about) that ET even has ever existed.
There is, in fact, just as much real actual proof that Earth is a huge statistical anomaly in planet formation. That we are in fact alone, and will be. Earth and it's position, with a single huge moon, in a solar system where two huge gas giants have cleaned up most of the trash in the system, in a planetary system that is basically isolated from other planetary systems, on the sparsely populated outer edge of a spiral arm of a huge galaxy that itself is far from other galaxies.
Actually, there's far more proof that we are truly alone, and we are truly unique, than there is factual proof in the Drake Equation that SETI and all the ET fanatics use to 'prove' that ETs exist, are smart, and exist at the same time we exist, and have technology at least as good as ours.
That's the strange thing about what we've learned lately in Astronomy. Earth, and our Solar System, is really unique in comparison to all the other systems we've been able to discover that have planets. According to the Drake Equation, by now we should have found at least 1 other 'Earth-like planet' and one other planetary system like our own. But… we haven't.
Kinda weird. Kinda sad. Or… Kinda wonderful.
This is why I don't and can't underestimate our own species ability to excel, and to keep excelling. To innovate and create and push the boundaries of science and curiosity.
Then there's… parallel evolution. The theory that X over here will develop in a similar way as Y over there without the developers of X or Y having anything to do with each other.
We see this biologically. Europe and America have deer, grazing herd animals that love jumping in front of cars and killing themselves. Australia, cut off from the other continents, has kangaroos which are grazing herd animals that love jumping in front of cars and killing themselves. The two groups of animals (deers and kangas-wallabies) are even colored roughly the same, have head shapes roughly the same, rears roughly the same, and both move with spring action (deers on 4 legs, kangas on 2 legs.) Parallel evolution in animals.
You see the same parallel evolution in technology. Basketry and pottery and metallurgy similar and almost shockingly the same even though separated by impassible terrain. Similar environmental conditions with similar resources creates similar technologies. Weird, freaky, but true.
Considering it's been like Minnesota here for the past couple of weeks it was decent today, so outside (string enough non-sunny days together and Coloradoan's get depressed.) Besides, keeps a guy from getting too soft.
Was thinking I'd be the magnanimous one and concede the stove-side bunk…wouldn't to get to toasty in the bunkhouse.
Drat
I was hoping for a cage match
Well written. Thank you.
We have a puzzle tomorrow. (hint) Where was Moses when the lights went out?
"…even though separated by impassible terrain."
If the terrain was impassible, how did people get past it to be in both places?
Paul L. Quandt
The first few weeks we were here was a night-sky revelation. I knew it was dirty and polluted in SoCal, but to see the Milky Way from my backyard is a wonder and treat.
Almost makes me want to buy a telescope again…..
Figured us misfits gotta stick together at some point, no sense helping the other side with their evil plans. But, said cage match might just be over the last cup of coffee.
It's not a real decimation until 10% are killed… 🙂
They make some really nice remote-control telescopes and domes. Run some internet cable and you do it all from the inside of your home, viewing on your computer monitor.
Well, climate and land changes, for two reasons. Loss of the landbridge between Asia and North America.
Or separation due to things like deserts, earthquakes and such.
For a long time, the oceans were the big part of impassible terrain. Until both Imperial China and smart-assed Europeans perfected, separately, methods of non-coast hugging, deep water sailing.
The Himalayas also served to isolate Tibet and Butan from many lowland societies.
Just because there's a barrier now doesn't mean there was one in the past. And vice-versa. If there's one thing good old Earth is is not being stable. She's a-changing all the time, sometimes very slowly, sometimes rather quickly.
Moses-Moses from the Bible or Frank Moses from 'RED'?
Actually, the Antikythera mechanism is only the most complex ancient mechanical calculator known. They made some pretty amazing ones back in the '50s and '60s, and then there are slide rules.
Still a nifty gadget.
-Kle.
We can't duplicate the engines of the Saturn 5, even with blueprints.
That doesn't mean they were made by aliens, just that the skills weren't transmitted, and the people who had them are dead.
Nobody's spent a lifetime (or several) trying to recreate these old crafts on pain of death – which is likely how they were developed in the first place.
-Kle.
All you need to do Nazca is a sub-scale drawing, something to measure scale with, a string and two sticks. More string and sticks makes it go faster.
My dad was a land surveyor, I learned how to do these things at single-digit ages.
When we lay out a subdivision plat with curved roads, we don't need airplanes or satellites to do it. Trig makes it go faster, but is not a requirement.
-Kle.
True. So, what are the courts waiting for? If the FISA warrants flew, death warrants should as well.
There is considerable evidence for people navigating the oceanic voids since the last ice age. We know a lot about how the Vikings did it because they did it recently (comparatively), but you can hug the shoreline between Southern Asia and land up in South America. And there is an inexhaustible supply of fish to eat during the trip. Fresh water is also available from rivers and streams.
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